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Bryan Lunduke @BryanLunduke

What is wrong with South Africa? They are, literally, out of water. Cape Town, which will be out of drinkable water "within weeks", launches protests when Israeli's offer help.

They would, literally, rather die of lack of water than let Jews help them.

Cape Town and Los Angeles both should be eagerly seeking the help of the world's foremost experts in desalinization. It's their only long-term hope to keep their cities going.

@BryanLunduke I arrived two days ago, and it rained yesterday, for the first time in a year or so. Also, there are 4 desalination plants being built:

Spinning this as if only Israel can help people here survive is insane imo.

@BryanLunduke Oh, also the date on that dashboard is now almost one month later than what I saw when i checked last time. Progress is being made for sure. The family I live with is also pretty strict about re-using every drop of water.

@raucao Nobody "spun" that.

Israel offered help. South Africa said "No, dirty Jews. Get out. We don't want water."

Paraphrasing... but that was the meaning. It was crystal clear. That was the intent.

@BryanLunduke "They would, literally, rather die of lack of water than let Jews help them."

Those are you words. That's literally what spinning means. There's no basis to that claim.

@BryanLunduke Your assertion stems from a single paragraph in a commentary article. Yes, they're aligned with Palestine, but shunning Israel's help in this particular matter is a miniscule fact on the side, and not very important to the overall situation.

@raucao @BryanLunduke remember, the merchants are *everyone's* greatest allies :'^)

@raucao That's my paraphrasing of their direct (and absolutely stupid) actions and statements. No spin. That's their intention. It's clear as day.

@BryanLunduke Are you still talking about that one side paragraph in a commentary article? There's next to no information in there, and it's still spinning to extremely pull it out of proportion.

How about you come over here and actually talk to someone, instead of staging outrage over an alleged population of jewhaters that you read about on the Internet.

@raucao The citizens protested when Jews came to help. In an area with a long, horrible history of anti-Jewish activity (including laws) -- that paints a clear picture.

You can not like it. But it's still the way it is.

@BryanLunduke Here's another interpretation of the same data:

Israel: "We know about desalination, you should buy our stuff."
ZA: "Thank you very much, we have enough capable engineers, and in case you hadn't noticed we're literally surrounded by two oceans. So no thank you, we don't want to do business with you on this one."

This paraphrasing is exactly as valid as yours, from just the available information in the linked article.

@BryanLunduke The article literally says "Israel has never offered South Africa a free desalination plant"

@BryanLunduke This is all about business. The "Jewish Report" makes it out to be all about racism. There are some idiot racist protesters in every country around the world on every topic with every race/nation.

@BryanLunduke I said it's spinning, because it's utterly unimportant to the crisis itself, and they have 4 desalination plants in constructions already.

@BryanLunduke The majority of the population being dependent on the Israeli offer, and then saying "No, dirty Jews. Get out. We don't want water." is complete bullshit. You may not like it, but that's what it is.

@raucao You've ignored the core statements -- your arguments make little sense and are detached from reality.

Be gone.

@BryanLunduke LOL. You haven't addressed a single one, and you're telling me mine are detached from reality, while I'm in the city, and your're judging from some Internet commentary from the US of A?

I am gone, because I'm there. Your behavior and ignorance is why people in the world have no respect for American foreign politics.

I've worried for a while that South Africa was going the way of Mugabe's Zimbabwe.
I blame this:

Not this person, but the postmodern worldview they describe:
"Science as a whole is a product of western modernity, and the whole thing should be scratched off"
"We have to restart science from an African perspective"
<goes on to suggest shamanistic black magic as a starting point>

Yes, some of them would rather die than accept Jew science (or western "colonizing" science, generally), and force those with them to die as well. Racism controls politics there, now.  Look up the murders of white farmers in South Africa.

graphic imagery, murder Show more

--Water and Sanitation has blamed the other two for not reacting vigorously enough when it became apparent, years ago, that densification — the city’s population has increased by 50 percent in the past decade — was going to strain water supplies.--
They did know that they needed to control the birth rate and little was done.
@bryanlunduke @lnxw48a1
>What is wrong with South Africa
We are going to have similar problems one day the nearest city that I know that is on the same path is Las vegas (building a city in the middle of the desert isn't something that helps).
The solution to this is extremely unpopular and other solutions like desalination can only mitigate the problem.

@BryanLunduke #Israel is the main reason that #Apartheid was a thing here in South Africa. It makes a very powerful statement when people refuse to allow murderous racists to "be the saviour". Many people in SA "stand by Palestine", which inevitably means that we must stand "against Israel". How far would *you* go to make your point? Besides that, we all know it is less about the drought, and more about mismanagement & bullshit politics.

@falgn0n That is absolutely, 100% incorrect. Look into the intense influence of Nazi germany on South Africa. Your statement is easily provably wrong with a quick check of Wikipedia.

@BryanLunduke in the last 40 years of the 20th century, most of SA's military tech and nuclear weapons came from Israel. Most of the "big business" moguls had ties to Israel (Eg: Sol Kersener, Raymond Ackerman, the Rockefeller family, not sure about De Beers or Anglo). It is well known that the National Party was a good "friend" of Israel. One of the first things that Mandela did after he came back was raise controversy with his pro-palestine policies. So much "smoke and mirrors" out there ...

@falgn0n Congratulations for writing complete #antisemitic bullshit: Would be interesting for reading some sources you are using when paraphrasing "murderous racists".

@throgh @BryanLunduke
have you *heard* of #Gaza ? #Palestine , maybe?
I gotta tell you, I am honestly surprised every time I come across someone who tries to defend Israel (as a state).
And I mean that sincerely - not tryna start a keyboard war.

@falgn0n @bryanlunduke Gosh, for sure I've heard about #Gaza and #Palestine. But first things first: You can criticize things, but just giving the global phrase "murderous racists" is just WRONG on so many levels. The situation is complicated, but it won't be better calling out for real bad names and phrases. And it stays #antisemitic bullshit! Have you heard that people in #Gaza and #Palestine are also dissatisfied with their OWN government? Talking about corruption for example? Don't be that kind of blindsided and use the hatred of others. What's next? Talking about the existance of Israel? (-.-)

@throgh @BryanLunduke
The day that israel lifts its boot off the face of the Palestinian people, is the day that I stop talking smack about 'em

@falgn0n @bryanlunduke Well, then you have nothing learned out of the situation itself. Because "Israel" is just more and a complete state with people in it. Marking them globally as "murderous racists" is not correct and take the discussion just on an emotional level without further facts.
There is the issue of #Apartheid. It may be the case that a country that only recently eliminated its policy of apartheid accepting the help of another country that's openly practising apartheid by colonialists against an indigenous population in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention and the UN Declaration of Human Rights is a worse ethical choice than running out of water.

@bobjonkmangreen Israel is *not* practicing apartheid. Also the *vast* majority of those that currently live in both the West Bank and Gaza are *not* indigenous (unless you count the huge numbers that were shipped ther by Jordan).

Making those sorts of statements suggests you support the stated goal of the Palestinian government -- the complete eradication of the Jews. I suggest stating otherwise if that's not the case.

The government of Israel is occupying and settling territory that was set aside for Palestinians displaced by the creation of Israel in 1948. Palestinians are not allowed to use roads set aside for Israelis. A wall has been erected, not to keep Israelis out of the Palestinian territories, but to keep the Palestinians out of Israel. Palestinian olive groves are demolished for Israeli settlement areas. Palestinian homes are destroyed as collective punishment.
This is #Apartheid -- excluding certain people based on race or religion. The sign reads, in part "This passage is designated for Israelis only. It is forbidden to drive any non-Israeli through this checkpoint!" /cc @BryanLunduke
You can listen to the entire presentation at "Audio from Cross Cultures “our FREEDOMS a lively interactive town hall” with @DimitriLascaris, Rehab Nazzal and Wendy Goldsmith" /cc @BryanLunduke

@bobjonkmangreen "Israeli" denotes citizenship in a nation. Citizens of Israel. There are nearly *identical* signs in almost every country on earth -- there are some borders/areas that cannot be entered without permission from that nation (which, often, is in the form of citizenship or other documented status).

That's not anywhere near apartheid. Not at all. That's like calling an "Apple" a "slice of bread". It's nonsense.

@bobjonkmangreen There are at least 3 innacuracies in that statement.

Before we can continue with a discussion, I need an answer to a simple question:

Do you condemn the Palestinian government's goal of the death of all Jews -- and do you support the right of Israel to exist and to defend its people from violence?

I need a direct answer to that. Otherwise we cannot continue having any sort of meaningful discussion.

By making that demand we've already lost any hope of meaningful discussion.

@bobjonkmangreen So you support the goal of the eradication of the Jewish people and/or feel that Israel has no right to defend itself.

Your stance is noted. This is really pretty doggone simple.

I specifically did not say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.


Here, watch this:

I condemn the Palestinian governments stated goal to eradicate the Jews.

Easy. Now, your turn.

@BryanLunduke @bobjonkmangreen With all respect, it's not /exactly/ that simple. I can understand why people might be reticent to say carte blanche that they support a nation's right to defend itself. In principle I think the US has a right to defend itself. I live there. It would be stupid of me not to. However, that doesn't mean I think the US has a right to do all the things it does /in the name/ of defending itself (say, the Iraq War or the number of people it keeps in detention in ICE.)

@bobjonkmangreen @BryanLunduke Similarly, I think the State of Israel should, in general, defend its people. However, I think many of the ways the Likud party pursues that goal are ineffective or, in some cases, directly undermine the goal and export more suffering than could be justified by the amount of actual safety they provide.

@Azure @bobjonkmangreen @BryanLunduke

The fact that Israel was created in the first place is kinda weird.

It's been a while since I've studied the histories, I probably shouldn't comment too far, but it did seem like a move designed to perpetuate war, from what I remember.